Comments on: the “shedding religion” path

By: Jill

Jill — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 00:36:09 +0000

Thanks for your post, Jim. Shedding religion in order to gain Christ is what I’m after.

Speaking of “church[es] that promote true and authentic Christ-centered spirituality, as well as open, honest, and authentic relationships”, have you heard about Frank Viola’s latest book, “Reimagining Church?” It sets forth a beautiful vision of the church based on the eternal purposes of God. I’ve read it and found it to be very insightful.

“Reimagining Church” is considered a sequel to “Pagan Christianity”. “. It picks up where “Pagan” left off and continues the conversation. (“Pagan Christianity” was never meant to be a stand alone book; it’s part one of the conversation.) “Reimagining Church” is endorsed by Leonard Sweet, Shane Claiborne, Alan Hirsch, and many others. You can read a sample chapter at http://www.ReimaginingChurch.org. It’s also available on Amazon.com. Frank is also blogging now at http://frankviola.wordpress.com/ .

By: Don R

Don R — Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:01:10 +0000

audrey- I realize , myself, a difference between soul and spirit. There are many who as yet do not grasp the difference between the two. I feel if these “newbies” in the journey out of the IC are given too many concepts at once, they will experience “overload”, which could be an unpleasant experience. I am simply trying to make the exposure to new terms and ideas as palatible as possible. Blessing to you.

By: chuck

chuck — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:52:22 +0000

shedding religion…. not shredding. huge difference.

By: Timothy Kurek

Timothy Kurek — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 09:36:37 +0000

I’ve found that shredding religion has been very easily managed lately, after witnessing the intense judgment of the church on the innocents that merely question. I feel as though we are in an age where there is an entirely different type of witch hunt occuring, but it’s every bit as bloody. This hunt is being conducted by the church and the witches are the people who are shredding religion. Thank God they can’t actually burn us up haha… I think they would!

By: audrey

audrey — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 21:45:39 +0000

I didn’t explain the above very well. While Adam was asleep Eve was separated from Adam – that is our soul, very much asleep,wandering around, judging things both good and bad, thinking we are separated from the spirit (the real us). When we turn to our hearts we become reunited, there’s no judgement, but in reality we’ve not been apart, we just THOUGHT we were. When we are in heart-mode thinking we find that the soul becomes the chamber to deliver the REAL US. Christ in us, out of us.

By: audrey

audrey — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:12:01 +0000

Don R is right when he says we cannot ‘wander away’ from that Source, and also “That Source loves you beyond any comprehension on our part. Source is truly the lover of our soul (spirit)”.
But suggesting that the spirit is the same as the soul is incorrect. The soul is part of the carnal mind, our humanity (ego-fleshy thing). Remember Saul had David to play for him because of his troubled soul. The spirit is peace. It cannot be troubled. In Genesis we are told firstly that man (us) was CREATED in God’s own image – this was when we ‘became’ and this is the Source, we ARE OF our Father. Adam (us) had a body of light at that time (no blood) and was both male and female. It was then we were given the choices (the two trees, to live or to die) Later we see God FORMED man with the dust of the earth and when he had breathed life into him he became a living soul – our humanity, spirit and soul in a ‘house’. From Adam, the soul was separated, that part of us that longs to better ourselves (we are all Adam). In that separated condition (separate from the spirit), the soul has no guidance. That was when we chose the wrong tree, instead of life we chose death. Remember Adam was asleep when this happened, and we in our dream made that choice thinking our ‘eyes would be opened’ And so they were, but to a world of imagination and lies. Right now Adam is beginning to wake up. As we turn our thinking around (metanoia) we find that the Source had never left us, it’s always been there and we cannot ‘wander away from it’
So A, be encouraged, when you think you have ‘wandered away’ just turn that way of thinking from your head to your heart, AND WAIT FOR THE FEELING OF LOVE AND PEACE TO ENVELOPE YOU. There, you are no longer in dreamland, you are beginning to wake up and be real and find your Father loves you.

By: Roger

Roger — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:33:27 +0000

Nice writing! Very well put.

As someone who is following more of a Buddhist path I can say without a doubt that it speaks to the core of the human problem in a way that western Christianity does not. While I do not consider myself a Buddhist either (because I do not do the “religious” practices), the philosophy makes more sense and has been and impetus for more positive change in me than 15 years of church-going, church service, Bible college and ministry.
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IMO Christianity simply has no equivalent to the philosopher-mystics of the east. While I have not read a few of the authors you mentioned, I have read others. As Sam Harris points out, most remain shackled by the dualism of church doctrine, and the exceptions have been influenced by Neo-platonism and other heterodox views which is in defiance of their own tradition.
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On the other hand, the purpose of Buddhism is specifically the type of experience being discussed in your group. It has 2500 years of surprisingly sophisticated and rational teaching, practice and methodology that has proven to lead people to discover consciousness.

By: Don R

Don R — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:41:22 +0000

A- There is no “wandering away from God”. Our Source is a part of everything and everyone. So you cannot “wander” away. Our tradition church “training” taught us that We are here and God is……………………………………………………..over there. It just isn’t so. He is here. He “is” us, in us, through us, inseparable. That was one of the hardest ideas of which I had to divest myself. We don’t “seek” the Source. You can’t “seek” something that is in everything and is in everyone, and is everwhere. Look in your heart and trust what it truly tells you. That Source loves you beyond any comprehension on our part. Source is truly the lover of our soul (spirit).

By: A

Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:17:56 +0000

you wrote, “for an outsider looking in, some of the steps on this path seem questionable”

and i observe that i am where was afraid to go, back when I was church-goer, and it’s still kinda scary at times.

so i find my comfort with this place to be a bit like a winding, country road through unfamiliar territory: Sometimes i feel amazingly freed to truly enjoy a greater sense of the Creator and Creation. Sometimes I wonder how far from God I have wandered, and if there is any going back (this assumes that the concept of the Christian God is the one-true-way).

Sometimes I wonder what’s around the next bend in the road, and am I traveling toward or away from God the Creator — or if there is even such a thing in Creation-language as toward and away.

By: Andrew Gray | Photosensibility » Blog Archive » Are you shedding your religion

Thu, 16 Oct 2008 05:17:51 +0000

[...] Are you one of them? Or does this touch an itch you’ve been wanting to scratch. Jim Palmer describes some symptoms of moving off the religion reservation. Maybe you can relate to some or all of them. [...]