what if you didn’t know good and bad?
Jim March 18th, 2008
in the garden, when the fruit was taken, the “knowledge of good and evil” was born. not just the knowledge of “evil” but the knowledge of “good and evil.” apparently, before then the reality of perfect harmony with God existed without this knowledge. at this point, no one would have said “God is good” because there was no knowledge of “good” yet. it seems eternal reality and knowing God is something beyond the knowledge of good and evil, which didn’t come until later.
what, if anything, could it mean to know God beyond the knowledge of good and evil? do you feel like you experience God and eternal reality in such a way? if so, how?
(photo by elaine faith)
- questions , religious detox
- Comments(19)
Jim:
It is said we shall never know the mind of God. I experience Him Everwhere and in Everything. Some of what I take in through my “gates” is good and some is bad. I no longer like to play the game in my head that I understand anything really. I do know that God made everything. Before “the fruit” It seems Adam and Eve just took all around them as an adventure of experience. When God walked with them in the evening it must have just amplified the experience. We have the “Mind Of Christ”, BUT, do we use it?
LOVE LIKE HIM,
G.B.U..
Michael.
Jim-I believe, in the realm of the absolute, where God dwells, there is no such thing as “good” and “evil”. It is only in the realm of the relative, where we dwell, that there exists “good” and “evil”. I also think that since these terms are “relative”, they exist in the relative only. They are created by humans. God gives the realm of the relative for purpose of contrasts (to help us find out who we really are). How would we know what “good” is without the contrast of “evil” for comparison? “Up” contrasts with “down”, etc; We must understand that the contrasts we see are created by us. Therefore, what is seen by one as “good” may be seen by another as “evil”. There are no absolutes in the realm of the relative, except the unconditional love of God which transcends from the absolute to the relative, permeates all things as the All in All should.
[...] My friend Jim Palmer, author of Divine Nobodies and Wide Open Spaces, posted about this at his blog just the other day. [...]
don posted the below Eckhart Tolle quote on his most recent blog post at http://donrogers.org/
i felt like the quote applied to our discussion here of getting beyond dualism
here it is,
“To have your attention in the Now is not a denial of what is needed in your life. It is recognizing what is primary. Then you can deal with what is secondary with great ease. It is not saying, “I’m not dealing with things anymore because there is only the Now”. No. Find what is primary first, and make the Now into your friend, not your enemy. Acknowledge it, honor it. When the Now is the foundation and primary focus of your life, then your life unfolds with ease.
When your attention moves into the Now, there is an alertness. It is as if you were waking up from a dream, the dream of thought, the dream of past and future. Such clarity, such simplicity. No room for problem-making. Just this moment as it is.
The moment you enter the Now with your attention, you realize that life is sacred. There is a sacredness to everything you perceive when you are present. The more you live in the Now, the more you sense the simple yet profound joy of Being and the sacredness of all life.
Most people confuse the Now with what happens in the Now, but that’s not what it is. The Now is deeper than what happens in it. It is the space in which it happens. Do not confuse the content of this moment with the Now. The Now is deeper than any content that arises in it.
When you step into the Now, you step out of the content of your mind. The incessant stream of thinking slows down. Thoughts don’t absorb all your attention anymore, don’t draw you in totally. Gaps arise in between thoughts – spaciousness, stillness. You begin to realize how much vaster and deeper you are than your thoughts.”
Here is my take,
Adam and Eve didn’t live in perfect harmony with God, or at least they must of had some concept of good and evil, right or wrong. Why do I think this? God told them to not eat the apple, if there wasn’t the concept of good and bad, right or wrong then why wouldn’t they eat they eat the apple? How were they to know that they were doing something wrong? God gave them rules to follow and they weren’t able to follow them.
I hope what I am trying to say makes sense.
Scott
Sorry to take this in another direction, but I love this thought about being in the ‘now’. I get this idea and can relate – I live so much of my life in thinking about the past (and regretting stuff) or wishing toward the future – I guess I live most of my life in my mind. I’ve often thought about living in the present, and being ‘present’, but getting there is another story. How does this happen? How do you live in the ‘now’?
TC
I’m finally starting to get the whole “now” notion (I think). TC, I can relate to what you said about living most of your life in your mind. I noticed that a recurrent theme even in my dreams is either things, people, or places in my past or else it feels like something that is yet to be experienced (future) but rarely is it ever anything currently happening in my life. I agree how does one let this happen? I want real answers from real people. What does the Bible say about all this? Does it say anything?
Denise R
Doesnt the Bible say something really profound about the “now”.
“This too shall Pass”
I think this is what Jesus was alluding to in the Sermon on the Mount. Don’t just think about doing the “right” thing or the “wrong” thing – what is the transcendent thing? If you get hit on the cheek, not hitting back might be a good thing to do, but Jesus challenges His followers to do even more. Be transcendent. Turn your other cheek and invite a slap on that one too. In the times I’ve remembered to ask God for transcendent wisdom, I think I have noticed a difference in the outcome. I’d like to believe that the difference is something of eternal value happening rather than just getting what I get from “being good.” Great post – I’ll be thinking about it for a while.
I’d like to piggyback on Jim’s post of the Eckhart Tolle quote. I was reading ‘Getting in the Gap’ by Wayne Dyer the other day about quieting our minds and meditating as a means of experiencing Oneness with God. Getting in the gap means focusing on the space BETWEEN your thoughts, which will bring you into the present moment, your breathing, feeling the warmth of your hands, etc….just Being.
He says once we tame the ego, we have the opportunity to make conscious contact in meditation and know God directly. We are like the raindrop described by the 19th century Urdu poet Mizra Ghalib who said, ‘for the raindrop, joy is in entering the river’. I don’t know about you all, but I sure can’t ‘enter the river’ when my mind is busy.
I REALLY love reading everyone’s thoughts and I learn so much from all of you. Thank you Don R. I’m familiar with the saying “This too shall pass” and I have been known to say it which is funny to me that you made mention of it. While I was thinking last night about what the Jesus may have said about the “now” a scripture in Matthew 6 came to my mind. Jesus told us not to be worried about the trivial things in our daily life. Then He talks about the birds and the lilies and how they don’t have to do anything and still God takes care of them. I know for myself worry is probably the single most thing that prevents me from really experiencing life fully right now. Worry is basically the same thing as fear and there is no fear in love. This led me to remember the scripture where it says that perfect love casts out fear because fear is punishment. I can’t be made perfect in love if I am afraid. Can’t enjoy life to it’s fullest. Even if it’s worrying constantly whether I am doing “good” and/or “evil” whether I will screw everything up. Again thanks to all!!! I am so blessed by these posts.
I too am so lightened by these thoughts from everyone – thanks to you all! Denise, what you said about not worrying about the everyday and how love kicks out fear – I do know that – but so easily forget. Thanks for making it real (again!).
This is my church.
Peace,
TC
TC- I would strongly recommend Eckhart Tolle’s, “The Power of Now”. It is a wonderful book. It may take two readings to begin to absorb it all. It is well worth the time. Blessings to you.
I just keep learning more in my mind and spirit–Thanks everyone.
Hello All
Heres a good one for FEAR.
F-false
E-evidence
A-appearing
R-real
I see someone else reads CWG….It’s great!
Don R.
Who is CWG??
This is a great question, and it’s one I’ve thought about before. I think the Garden of Eden is a great parable that simply recognizes that something profound happened when our species appeared on this planet. Prior to human forms there were no life forms that were aware of themselves, or of good or evil, or with any spirituality. They lived as animals do today, without guilt, and without sin. But something profound happened in or to the evolutionary process, for which we have no scientific explanation, and we are different than all the other creatures. There is something more to us – something that is not physical. We are self aware, and we are spiritual. Genetically we have our roots in the animal kingdom, but we are different. And like Adam and Eve, we cannot go back to that innocent world where good and evil, are not known. The animals still live in the garden of eden, but we cannot be in it. We carry the burdens of self awareness, and the pain that it can bring, but we also carry the great blessing of a relationship with God. No pain, no gain, as we say. Now as to “good and evil” — “good” is anything that brings us closer to God. “Evil” is anything that takes us farther away from God. In that greatest of all miracles we gained the ability to relate to God, and the burdens of conscious choice and self-scrutiny. My cat lives in the Garden of Eden, and I can pet the cat, but I can’t get in the Garden!
John T-
CWG= the “Conversations with God” series of books by Neale Donald Walsch.