Zebra Crossing!?! (fill-in-the-blank)
Jim May 19th, 2008
okay, this falls under the category of: Things you figure you won’t ever see while cycling the back roads of Middle Tennessee…Zebras! i was riding with a couple friends saturday and suddenly we look over on the side of this little country road, and see a front yard filled with Zebras. we stopped and my friend snapped the above pic. it was pretty amazing. it was a huge gated property; it may be some sort of refuge from injured Zebras. wow! i hope we run into gorillas next time; those things fascinate me.
i’m meeting with a group of Christian leaders on June 13 for an event in Nashville called, Connecting with the Spiritual Interest of Non-Religious people. i wanted to ask for some help. if you’re inclined, would you mind writing a brief (around 2-3 paragraph) answer to the following questions. just pick one. be as honest as possible but it’s not meant to be an invitation to t-off on others or an outlet to vent everything that ails you. pick one of the following questions or fill-in-the-blank answers…
1. I left organized church because…
2. Is following Christ the same as being a “Christian”?
3. For me, religious detox has involved…
4. The main way I feel judged by or don’t feel like I fit with most “Christians” is…
5. What’s most important to me now about my relationship with God is…
6. How was I most hurt or wounded through my involvement with organized religion?
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- Comments(32)
Jim:
You may know I have been through a difficult time in my life which, by the way was of my choice. God did not ordain my chioce to leave my wife for the fifth time but, I do beleive that He is using it to bring me into closer relationship with Him. For years now I have called myself a Christian, been involved in leadership and also have been instramental in the development of a major outreach effort in a Mega church. My Spirit was restless however, and I am not certain why. (Flesh.) I must continue to pray but, I do believes God wanted me somwhere else. When I spoke to a cousellor about my difficulty in my fifteen year job at the hospital he said that perhaps I was to smart for my job and, I was bored so maybe that is why I got into trouble and, was miserable in my job. Long story short, God brought me to a place where I left that job. Not only did that happen, but He was with me through it. I know that without God through all of this I likely would have been strepped to a bed somewhere, or behind a locked door.
I continue to learn so much more about God and his will for me in His Life. After slumber for many years in my walk I am now fully alive and have experienced true joy that only comes through Him. My wife and I are dating and although it is not as I would want it; I am comfortable knowing that God is in the restoration buisness and he will totally rebuild our shattered marriage. I must rember to resist the urge to play God and push to get my selfish desires of my flesh. I must continue to pray and let Him do the work. Most important is I have a deeper love For God than ever before. I see everything through His “Love Glasses”. Shelley and I are experiencing more Love than ever and spending time in an organized church worshiping God together. We also eperience the presence of God as we pray together now differently then before as God ordains this union and abores divorce.
LOVE LIKE HIM,
G.B.U.,
Michael.
by the way, you can send me an email or leave your answer as a comment. i am getting both. do whatever you feel most comfortable with.
jim@divinenobodies.com
I left the organized church because:
after facing a year of crises in 2001, I began studying early Christianity, I found that most of those early Christians did not believe in ET (hell). 4 out of the 6 theological schools didn’t teach it. I discovered that there was a strong possibilty that the Bible teaches universal reconciliation. I was in Southern Baptist churches all my 59 years and not one single word about those two possibilities. I began to wonder what else I hadn’t been told. I studied more and more and made the decision that I could not stay in organized religion.
I have come a long way in those three years and continue my journey to learn more about God and my relationship with him.
1. I left organized church because…
Organized religion, for the most part, does not focus on Love, which is the center of God and Christ
I do however attend, the least evasive organized church in my area–by least evasive, I mean less judgemental.
2. Is following Christ the same as being a “Christian”?
To me following Christ is a spiritual journey of finding Truth.
being a Christian to me means falling under a set of doctrinal positions. So, I follow Christ, but still don’t mind the Christian label as long as being “Christian” does not mean a doctrinal position or exclusion of others
3. For me, religious detox has involved…
Letting go of constant guilt and jugement created by mental abstractions instead of a real present relationship with God.
4. The main way I feel judged by or don’t feel like I fit with most “Christians” is…
Most Christians hold to the idea that belief is most important, not who I am in God–that is oppressive
5. What’s most important to me now about my relationship with God is…
To be at Peace and to grow deeper in Love, Joy, Peace, Faith and let life unfold without fighting what is.
6. How was I most hurt or wounded through my involvement with organized religion?
I was hurt by the belief that God’s Love is conditional and relationship with him was not in my power because I never met these vague “holiness” standards. That I would never reach the peak of the mountain because my actions and thoughts were never good enough.
Of course, now I have learned that “sin” is not doing wrong but a forgetfullness of what is truly right. Christianity is not a behavior modification program, but rather a realizaton, or changing of the mind that the Kingdom of God is available Now. Of course this realization, does affect how we react and behave toward the world–we bahave in a loving sincere way–not wearing a mask of holiness–now Love over Law.
Above I wrote erroneously
“being a Christian to me means falling under a set of doctrinal positions.”
I meant to say Christianity does not mean falling under a set of doctrinal positions.
jim, numbers 2 and 6 aren’t fill in the blanks, they’re questions. Come on author man.
l. cope, jim said PICK ONE
j/k
“Is following Christ the same as being a ‘Christian’?”
1.What is a follower of Christ?
When one decides to follow Jesus they should be deciding to become more like Him. They recognize that what He offers is the best possible way to live. Jesus offers grace and forgiveness of our sins. With this should come an attitude of grace and forgiveness toward others. Not only this but Jesus was constantly serving others. Followers of Christ should do the same. Instead of making people feel like an evangelistic project followers of Christ just show love. Of course they would love it if their friends would follow Jesus but realizes that the person deserves to be loved not because of the choices they make but because they are the very image of God. Followers of Christ are striving to become more like Him.
2.What is being a Christian?
My answer will be for the 21st century because I believe that a Christian was a follower of Christ during the 1st century.
Today you are a Christian if:
1.Your parents are.
2.You grew up in church.
3.If you are baptized into a church.
These are just a few. A lot times Christians are seen as hypocritical. A Christian is really only a Christian when they are a follower of Christ.
Because of Jesus,
David Knapp
The most important thing to me now about my relationship with God is that I focus is now on the quality of time I spend with God as opposed to the quantity of time. I used to believe that if I spent every Sunday morning, Tuesday in women’s Bible study, and Wednesday night in a church program then I would be closer to God. If I picked up my Bible and read a chapter real quick I would somehow make God happy and feel close to Him. It never happened.
Through a lot of thinking and reflection I have come to realize that the times I felt closest to God were not through all by business and conscious effort on my part but just the opposite. It was in the quiet still moments. It was while driving in my car or standing in line at a the check out counter. It was while staring at tree and seeing it’s branches move by an unseen force. It is in the quiet enjoyable moments and sometimes even in the daily mundane moments that I find myself growing closer and more aware of God. There is no magic formula to use or class to take. All I need to do is be open to Him and be His Love wherever I am.
WOW! I really should have proof read the last comment before I hit submit. I’m sorry.
I meant to say:”Through a lot of thinking and reflection I have come to realize that the times that I felt closest to God were not in all the business and conscious effort but just the opposite.”
Oh, and there are other errors too but I will have to push the OCD in me to the side and let them slide. I really shouldn’t type anything with a cat lying next to me on the couch almost on top of the laptop and with three children running in and out the door .
1. I left organized church because…
they seemed to care more about their budgets, building funds and coffee and donuts than actually helping the poor and loving on the marginalized.
2. Is following Christ the same as being a “Christian”?
not to me, no. i don’t like the baggage that comes with the word christian. i like to just say i heart Jesus.
3. For me, religious detox has involved…
a LONG, drawn out, painful, excruciating, lonely, heartbreaking, freeing, exhilerating, sometimes mind boggling, angry, happy, sad time in my life. it is confusing at times, totally clear at times. i mostly think i’m losing my mind. unlearning everything i “learned” in the last ten years.
4. The main way I feel judged by or don’t feel like I fit with most “Christians” is…
the way they think everyone is supposed to “look” and “act” and “be”. the way they think everyone is supposed to experience God in the same three ways, bible reading, praying and going to church.
5. What’s most important to me now about my relationship with God is…
connecting with Him through photography and other creative outlets that have nothing to do with bible reading, praying and going to church.
6. How was I most hurt or wounded through my involvement with organized religion?
the worst thing i can think of is when my husband and i were youth leaders and we were taking the kids out of the building every wednesday to take pizza and sodas and to hang out with kids that were locked up in the detention center. we did this for a good two months and then the “lead pastor” told us we had to stop because he was afraid if vistors came on a wednesday and we weren’t there to greet them, they wouldn’t come back. i told him that he could tell the visitors that we were having a date with Jesus, and if they wanted to join us, they could come back next wed. he made us stop going. we left “the church” soon after that…. that was one of the defining moments for us… the moment that let us know that most pastors cared only about what went on in the building, how to build a bigger building, how to get people to come back…. we were not interested in any of that, and still aren’t to this day.
oh, and a p.s. on number 6. how was i most hurt or wounded through my involvement – i cited a specific instance, but overall i have to say that i lost my individuality through my experience with organized religion…. i felt “forced” to fit in, to fit some type of mold or shape or way to be. i joined group after group looking for acceptance… i changed my appearance, my language, even some of the things i enjoyed i gave up in order to fit in. i lost me in the process, the real me. that has damaged me more than anything. now i’m trying to find the real me, which is wonderful, but so very confusing when i’ve lived in some other me for 10 years….. i hope that makes sense. i can tend to ramble… as jim knows….
Great job being Jesus to those in the detention center. I am sorry that the pastor didn’t recognize Him.
hey, it’s jim. there’s a few emails with responses that i received from folks who gave me permission to include it anonymously. here’s one…
Following Christ and be a Christian are no longer the same thing, at least not in our society. Very simply, when I think of Christianity I think of politics. This is what Evangelical conjures up in my head:anti-gay, anti-abortion, republican, pro-war, anti-environment,wealthy, white, anti-any other religion. Sad. Early historical writers of the 1st and 2nd century, like Josephus, wrote how Christians shared there possessions and lives, and took care of the sick and needy. The last time I went to church the pastor boasted that the U.S. Evangelical church has access to $7 trillion. That doesn’t include the Roman Catholic Church. I am wondering how they can allow so much suffering in our country and our world when they have the financial resources to end world hunger?
I was and Evangelical for 27 years of my life. What is got most out of church was: read and pray every morning, go to church every Sunday and Wednesday, tithe (one church wanted a tithe of my student loans- Christian & Missionary Alliance Church), be republican, it’s okay to joke about gays, liberals, and muslims, harry potter is bad, but magic in Narnia is good, alcohol is bad, sex is bad, woman are inferior to men, the bible is just doctrine and theology, etc.
I spoke about grace and love but never experienced it from God or others. I kept trying to please God and got more and more fanatical and exclusive. Then I started reading. I read Blue Like Jazz, The Shack, your books, Ragamuffin Gospel, Searching for God Knows What, and many more. For the first time in my life I felt God loved me and that changed my life. I felt free to ask the tough questions and process some of the Christian stuff i always wanted to question but was afraid to.
So i left the church so i could follow Christ.
WHY I LEFT ORGANIZED RELIGION
The short answer is, it hindered my relationship with God instead of promoting it.
I agree with what the others said before me: I lost my individuality in my effort to become the “Christian” the church/God supposedly wanted me to be- church taught me to be fake. There are always specific sets of doctorines one must accept and profess openly to be accepted- church taught me to be a liar. In organized religion people have a tendency to fall into groupthink- I learned intolerance at church. Church insisted that only THIS church has the right answers, and that any other church, even another Christian church, is to be avoided because they don’t have the whole Truth. Church taught me to be prejudiced. I learned at church that women are lesser beings than men, that only men were capable of teaching, leading or making important decisions. At church, I learned that God loves me less because I’m female. Organized christianity insisted that I am a filthy, stinking, horrible, sinful person deserving of Hell. I’m less than worthless, and knowing so is a godly attribute. Church taught me to despise myself and be afraid of God. In church, I learned that a grand performance as the ultimate Christian is preferable to an honest confession of failure, and that the honest, broken people are shunned, gossiped of, and never forgiven. Church taught me to RUN LIKE HELL!
here’s another response that was sent by email, which i have posted below.
1. I left organized church because… still attending at this point.
2. Is following Christ the same as being a “Christian”? No. to me, “Christian” is a noun. it’s a label. it’s a word used to describe me like engineer, father, husband, centerfielder. “Following Christ” is a verb phrase, like “engineering some piping”, “disciplining my kids”, “listening to my wife”, and “playing center field”. I know people have tried to turn the latter into a noun – “Christ Follower”, but like Derek Webb says, that’s a pretty hard thing to claim to do. I use the word “Christian” pretty loosely. I believe I am one, but i dont believe that earns me anything. The term has come to mean a certain set of behaviors in our culture like “someone who goes to church” and “someone who prays regularly”. In the end its just a word.
3. For me, religious detox has involved…I think i am in that process right now. 3 years ago God exposed some nasty sin in my life and I came clean to the people who loved me. That was a painful and humbling detox. Since then I’ve tried not to play the religious game of judging myself against others, but by nature I always want to do that.
4. The main way I feel judged by or don’t feel like I fit with most “Christians” is…most of the Christians i am close to share similar worldviews as me, so i dont feel like i am being judged by them too much. I think there are many christians out there who put more emphasis on behavior than i do. I try to honor God with every decision I make, but i am careful not to use those choices as a yardstick for how close or far from God I am. I also try hard not to get caught up in the harsh judging of certain vices because of the stigma the american church has placed on them. A lot of Christians equate cigarettes, beer, and cussing with sin without really thinking about out. In doing so they set up a system where their abstinence from those things elevates their view of themselves.
5. What’s most important to me now about my relationship with God is…keeping the communication lines open. Treating it truly as if it was a relationship. It’s so hard to do because “out of sight, out of mind”, so i try to remember to use God’s creation as a trigger for communing with him. Whether its landscape, scenery, or people reminding me, I am trying to remember to speak to God more. (and i probably should spend more time listening too)
6. How was I most hurt or wounded through my involvement with organized religion? I’ve seen some ridiculous things. Pastors who divided churches apart by wanting full control of every decision and claiming that “it would be pointless for God to speak to this church through anyone but me”. I’ve also had a hard time with people who trivialize art as an expression of spirituality. That has always bothered me. A song does not have to be explicitly about God to be beautiful.
Here are some responses from my Myspace blog…
#1
Okay, here it goes.
Q) How was I most hurt or wounded through my involvement with organized religion?
A) When I really became honest with myself, I realized that my involvement with organized religion comprised of two main things – trying to figure out what the rules to be accepted were, and trying in futility to obey these rules. As much as I heard the popular rhetoric, “it’s about relationship, not rules” I realized that this was, for the most part, just talk. It was about rules, always was, always will be. This is the crux of religion..Yeah, on the surface, it did not seem this way. The last organized church I was part of regularly had a very casual and dress down style. It was not uncommon to see people coming to church in shorts and flip flops on the Saturday evening service that I attended, and the praise team usually incorporated secular songs that could have a spiritual interpretation into their routine. But after I got really involved in the church, I realized that there were some who were more acceptable than others. For instance, if you were faithful, paid your tithes, served in ministry and went above and beyond to help out in church, you were more acceptable than others. This was to be expected as this occurs in practically all circles.
The straw that broke the camel’s back for me, however, came when I opened up to an influential church member about some personal struggles in my life. I have struggled with some addictive habits that I am not proud, especially since one of them involves the no-discussion topic of sex. I have struggled with an addiction to porn for some time now and I know it is wrong. I have done everything in my power to rid myself of this addiction from prayer to Bible study, group sessions therapy, support groups, and even demon deliverance services. But I was given the added implication by this influential church member that I struggled because I was not dedicated enough to God, not persistent enough, not faithful enough. You get the idea. I was already exhausted from trying to keep all the rules to keep God loving me. It was at this point where I realized that I would be better off without organized religion, it was doing me more harm than good. I had started to really resent God.
#2
1 ” I left the organized church because”
Conversation seemed to have gotten lost in the midst of all the role playing. Getting all the repetition I can handle in the work place. Having to endure it on Sunday also, just became too much of a burden on my day of rest.
But, I have no problem with church going with those who still seem to enjoy the experiance. It seems to be a stage we all go through during the Christian experience at one time or another.
Maybe it’s just as I get older. I would rather talk than play or perform.
#3
In our culture, following Christ is way different than “being a Christian.”
Following Christ involves doing things Jesus’ way.
“Being a Christian” involves using God-talk (and more specifically Jesus-talk).
Following Christ involves following him in his death and resurrection.
“Being a Christian” involves talking about his death and resurrection.
Following Christ involves trying to live out his mission statement of healing the broken hearted, restoring sight to the blind, and bringing good news to the poor.
“Being a Christian” involves putting all these things into “Christianeese” either in an effort to justify doing them or to justify not doing them.
In the book of Acts, “Christian” was a term of derision used to describe fully-devoted followers of Christ.
The fully-devoted followers of Christ did not apply that term to themselves.
here’s another…
I was raised Pentecostal. I was taught that God was a great big man up in the sky who loved me. But, he was very much like my father. His love was conditional. When I did the right things he was proud of me. But, when I did the wrong things, he was there to punish me. And, BTW, the best I could ever do was as “filthy rags”. So, he was never really proud of me.
I was taught that this God who loved me demanded perfection and nothing short of perfection could please him. Since I could not be perfect, he would accept Jesus’ perfection in my place. Since I deserved to be killed and then eternally tortured, he’d take Jesus in my place for that, too. He could only bear to look upon me if he saw me wrapped up in Jesus’ bloody body. I get the image of a wolf literally wrapped in a sheep’s carcass when I think of those days.
Serving this type of perfectionist and schizophrenic God made me fearful, demanding and judgmental myself. I knew that even my love for him was a sham because how can you love a monster who creates a helpless, sinful creature then tortures it for being exactly what he created it to be? How can you love in “free will” someone who says “Love me or I’ll send you to hell for eternity.” How others around me could love this god made me feel inferior and evil. I knew that even though I had done the right things, said the prayer, gotten baptized, even spoke in tongues that I hadn’t really appeased him because I could never truly love him, only fear him.
That is how I was most hurt by organized religion. Organized religion presented me with the picture of a schizophrenic, perfectionist, masochistic God and demanded that I love an unlovable tyrant.
1. I left organized church because…
I was told it was my responsibility to overcome my shyness and social phobias and reach out to others. After years of trying to do so and feeling inferior and weak because I couldn’t – I finally just gave up and left. Also – they were all about themselves. It was like the church was for churchgoers only. So much money wasted that could have been given to people who need FOOD and WATER and SHELTER.
2. Is following Christ the same as being a “Christian”?
No! “Christian” is a very general term. Even when I was a Christ follower I hated to be labeled a Christian due to the negativities connotations associated with that word.
3. For me, religious detox has involved…
Leaving the church and more recently, just giving up on the whole damn thing. I am now an open minded agnostic vs. a liberal minded Christ follower. I still think Love is the most important thing but I don’t know if God and Love are the same.
4. The main way I feel judged by or don’t feel like I fit with most “Christians” is…
Their views on just about everything clash with mine. I don’t fit in because I don’t live by their judgmental, hypocritical, mean-spirited, narrow-minded, self-righteous rules.
5. What’s most important to me now about my relationship with God is…
See above. I no longer have one. I have an empty hollow ache inside because for my entire life I believed but he’s simply not there. Some of my friends have come up with their own versions of who God is to them, and I hope I can do that too someday but right now, it doesn’t make sense. I’m angry. I don’t like being angry but I can’t deny that’s how I feel.
6. How I was most hurt or wounded through my involvement with organized religion?
Watching others being hurt or wounded bothers me more than what has happened to me personally. I was treated very poorly at a time in my life when I needed support because I had “sinned”. The attitude of superiority and exclusivity in some “Christians” makes me cringe.
In conclusion – I know not all “Christians” are like this. I have Christian friends that I love, admire, support. I see Christians, like you Jim, that are all about Love. WOS is probably in some ways what I wish the Bible said….if the Bible had the same message as your book I may reconsider. For now I am just one big gaping wound of loneliness who feels that God lied – he does not comfort me, he will not answer my prayers or give me any indication he is real.
#6. How I was hurt or wounded through my involvement with organized religion?
I just got tired of wearing the ‘Christian mask’. Sick of it, actually. I grew up in a conservative evangelical household where we read the Bible, went to church on Sunday and I attended the youth group. We were all expected to talk the same, pray the same, interpret scripture the same, and above all else, vote the same. It was more like we were members of some spiritually exclusive club. Yet I experienced deep loneliness. As my disconnect grew, I started to look outside organized religion and evangelical settings for some answers. I just wanted to be emotionally whole, but when I brought my issues up I was told to read more scripture. When my father found out I was looking for answers elsewhere, he told me I was going to Hell if I believed anything other than how I was raised (a nice conversation starter, huh?). Anyway, that was the day I left the institutional church and it became the first day of Freedom. I’ve never looked back. I don’t hold grudges against other Christians but my crap-detector goes off immediately when I meet anyone who’s wearing the ‘Christian mask’. I consider myself a follower of the teachings of Jesus and I strive to be like Him. The term ‘Christian’ carries too much baggage for me.
Jane, your story really resonates with me. Thanks for sharing your heart. I too was raised in a very similar environment. I couldn’t even escape at school because I attended “Christian” schools until 10th grade. It screwed me up on a lot of things. I’ve been fortunate enough that most of my family (mom, dad, sister, and nieces) have also left the IC behind in search of some freedom. We now meet together and invite other friends that are searching for freedom and just tired with it all. We focus on moving ahead and not looking behind. We are working together to reach out to love deeper and to experience the depths of God’s love and freedom. It has been wonderful!!!
Jim, thank you so much for providing this forum for us to express what is on our hearts. I take much comfort in knowing that others are stepping out of their cages and search of freedom too. Good luck with your talks at this upcoming event.
Whew………
Church is one of the few things in life that I actually need to Detox from
The main way I feel judged by or don’t feel like I fit with most “Christians” is…
Your question really peaked something in me about judgement, judgementalism, judging and being judged. When I’m operating from my small perspective everything is scary and I respond sometimes by judging what’s good or bad, who’s good or bad. It seems like I’m on go to do this, I don’t even have to try. It’s a reflex mechanism to protect the small me. I’m not operating out of love but out of fear. When this is organized and institutionalized it’s powerful and toxic.
When I’m operating out of the big me, the whole me “others” aren’t scary or threatening to me. I don’t have to play the “who’s on top game” to get life, I have life to give away. I wish I operated out of the big life more, I’m really easier to be around when I see myself and the world from this perspective. Maybe Christrianity is suffering from the same problem and that’s why the line is drawn in the sand much of the time.
reggie
Is following Christ the same as being a “Christian”?
To me that the only thing it means, and I’ll explain further.
I’ve had many people question my “Christianity” over the past few years because my ideas don’t fit into their boxes. So to me, being a Christian has nothing to do with doctrines, even beliefs about Jesus himself. Whether or not somebody believes he was just a dude, was God, or didn’t even exist at all doesn’t matter to me. I’m more interested in following the recorded faith of Jesus, rather than the faith about Jesus. Does that make sense?
Some of the principles Jesus seemed to follow:
1) Unconditional love
2) Intense empathy
3) Bold and sometimes harsh reactions to self-righteousness
4) An ability to face the facts of life and simply ask for strength and peace in dealing with them
5) Small, local focus on interpersonal relationships in the midst of sweeping societal challenges
That’s all I try to do, and in my mind that makes me a Christian. Although I admit that the word has become almost meaningless, and that’s evident by the comments so far. We all have a different definition based on our own experiences.
[...] Jim Palmer [...]
When I came out of the “closet” about the freedom I am experiencing in Christ, my reading of “The Shack” and then my stance that “spanking isn’t the best option”, friends of many years sent me e-mails, accusing me of not “believing in spanking”, being “deceived” and believing in a “different” Jesus and not not letting my husband know “what I am getting into”. One friend banded me from her e-mail list. It has been emotional and has striped away another layer of grave clothes I did not even know I was wearing.
I have continued to read and read and read and absorbed this new God of Love. I think this has been a major part of the detox; looking for a God of relationship in the Bible instead of a God ready to hit me with another list of duties to keep me in His favors. Since I am a certified herbalist and do “detoxes” and am familiar with the side effects, I can understand why this religious detox does not feel so good at times, but I can deal with it know it is producing a “cleaner” me and drawing me to the Father’s heart of love.
Part of the religious detox has been almost feeling “mad” at times. Feeling taken advantage of and used by Christians. People I have poured my life into for years totally not reading me or REALLY knowing me. I find myself being very cynical and judgemental of the systems I was into for years, namely the “homeschool” movement and all its GURUS. I seem to be more sensitive to the insensitivity of “Christians” I know and how so self absorbed they can be and CHEAP. Man, are they CHEAP. People in the church pour the token tithe there while the body is in need. Then I struggle with the ideas that I am not being “very Christian” by having such thoughts and run back to my Abba Father and bury my face in his shoulders and it seems he pats me on the back and says he understands; He deals with it a million fold! LOL!
Religious detox over all has been lonely as I am leaving much of my illusional security I collect over the past 30 plus years. I am developing my own personal life with Jesus and has little of the cliches’ and patterning that I so easily embraced. I kinda like it!!
Denise, thanks for your support. Yes, based on some of your previous comments it looks like we’ve come from similar backgrounds…but we’ll both be the better/stronger for it! Most of my relatives are still steeped in the IC so sometimes I feel lonely that I can’t share my new-found Freedom with them. Oh well.
Jim, this blog is a blessing. I truly learn from everyone’s comments. It’s kinda like church to me, in a GOOD way.
When I read Martin Zenders book, “How to Quit Church without quiting God”, it became very apparent that his comparison of the evangelical, conservative church fits the discription of a cult (as Bab Larson says, and he is an expert, he says)
It also is an addiction and maybe the most expensive on in America.
All in all, I just didn’t get my moneys worth from it.
I’m much more happy now.
Whats most important to me now about my relationship with God…
The most important thing to me now is getting away from trying to be like God and training to be like God. When you try to do something you arent necessarily learning all the steps that go into the process you are just trying. When you are training you are learning the process thus every time you repeat the process you are learning more and more how you function. This is true for me in baseball. I can try all day long to pitch like Nolan Ryan and besides the obvious differences in ability that wont help me to become better. Now if i train to pitch like Nolan Ryan then my body will undergo a change and most likely my mind will change and I will be better off for the next time.
Our faith/religion/belief/walk/ (whatever you want to call it) mainly grows (in my humble opinion) when we quit trying to be God and train to be what he has for us.
Thank you for sharing everyone. It’s good to know you aren’t alone.. I will post my answers later..
Thanks Jim… I enjoy your blog and am grateful to have found you…
I left organized church because I think God has more in mind for our lives than getting together to watch “church leaders” put on a show every week involving mediocre music and a formulaic “lesson” and allowing the church culture to pressure us into embracing their opinions and image.
Is following Christ the same as being a “Christian”? It should be, but in it is not. There are many Christians who do nothing resembling following Christ and many people who love and follow Christ would be horrified to be lumped in with Christian culture.
For me, religious detox has involved abstaining from the toxic environment of people who restrict God to Evangelical standards, partaking in honest conversation with people who hold a wide range of opinions, reading the Bible for what it says, not what people say it means and doing a lot of listening and contemplating.
The main way I feel judged by or don’t feel like I fit with most “Christians” is simply in holding opinions different to their’s. The fact that I don’t “go to Church” confuses them and makes them unable to relate to me as a follower of Christ.
What’s most important to me now about my relationship with God open communication. I find it easier to relate to God now than I did before….though I’m turning to God probably less frequently, there is more depth to our interaction.
How was I most hurt or wounded through my involvement with organized religion? I think there are psychological effects of growing up in evangelical christianity. I think the main way I’ve been personally wounded by it was that as a child I had a largely absent father due to “ministry’s” requirement on his time. This did not result in a happy or healthy family life. I don’t know why, but I have always been able to filter the negative effects of American religion, from my views of God. This has been invaluable to me, and I think has protected me from a lot of the damage of religiosity. I have been wounded by losing so many friends: some who want nothing to do with me because I don’t attend church (or our friendship is reduced to them trying to persuade me of the necessity of church involvement for my salvation, spiritual growth, or whatever), others who have been so wounded by church that they no longer want to have anything to do with God and see all “christians” as hypocrites.
I agree with the above commenters who point out the lack of love in the Church. It is a huge problem, but I don’t necessarily think more love would solve everything. I think the church also needs a good dose of humility: a willingness to say that it was wrong, to apologize, and and openness to people with a variety of perspectives. The church needs to be able to honestly welcome and seek out a poly-variegated range of people without trying to subversively mold them into the approved image, and to recognize that with a diverse congregation, each part brings an aspect of God that would be missing without them.
Rahime, I can relate to many of your comments, especially this one…’I don’t know why, but I have always been able to filter the negative effects of American religion from my views of God’. I wish I had been able to do that growing up. It might have protected me more from the damage of religiosity.
I was reminded of this fact just last week when I went to the cemetery for the first time in years since my dad died to view his grave with relatives who were visiting. I realized that I knew more about my dad’s scriptural beliefs, doctrinal beliefs, favorite bible verses, than who he was as a person. Sadly, this is also true of my mom, who’s elderly yet still with us. Both she and my dad were/are still so tired to their doctrines for their identity, I wonder what my relationship with them would now be like if this had this not been the case.
Likewise, my spiritual path now is to learn as much as I can ‘of’ Jesus and his teachings and take them to heart, not just learn ‘about’ Jesus which is what church tried to do, in my experience.
Jim,
I was lucky enough to be led to an emerging church called Vintage Worship Gathering that meets in a local art gallery/theatre. We don’t call it “church”, our pastor is just called by his first name, which is Albert, and if anyone called him “pastor” I think we all might chuckle. Everyone wears jeans. Well, not everyone, but most of us.
We have a “coffee bar” which consists of a lot more than coffee: pastries, desserts, quiches, fruit, bagels, and the like. All of which are free because a dedicated group of women cook on Saturday nights to provide the great stuff. We have a rock band who also has solo projects and plays gigs out in the community, it’s led by a guy called Captain, and his band name on MySpace is ‘Green Green Green.’
One of the other guys who leads things there, Phil, recently went on leave from his more stable and lucrative job as a consultant for the school board to launch a community business project: starting an indie film theatre. It’s called the Mos’art Theatre, which is the name of the building, and shows Rated R indie movies that would get us in trouble with most church ladies. The goal of the theatre is to rub shoulders with folks who don’t know God. We want them to know him and show love, so the theatre just talks about opennes, hope, things like that. Here’s a link: http://mosarttheater.com/Mosart_Theatre/Welcome.html
I know religion has hurt a lot of people, but whether you go to a home church or an “organized” place, I believe you have to have the support of like-minded folks, or at least, it makes life a little easier.