the original screw up
Jim November 3rd, 2009
What originally screwed things up? Apparently at first, things were going fairly well in the garden with Adam and Eve. It was ALL good. Then they ate the fruit and it became good AND bad – they acquired the knowledge of good and evil. What is it about the “knowledge of good and evil” that screws things up? Seems like this knowledge created an entire system that’s broken and doesn’t work. Before that it was simple. Then it got complicated. Can we go back? What would it mean to live life on the it’s-all-good system? Is that possible? What would it look like? What is the difference between the all-good reality and the good-AND-bad deal? Is the current system inherently broken and flawed? What’s the alternative?
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cheryl – sounds pretty orgasmic to me! where do i sign up! : )
GAWD – sorry – i didn’t mean to sound trite!! I can’t believe my inside voice got onto the page and the finger pressed SEND…..ever since the stroke….forgive me.
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We truly are on a journey together. Julian of Norwich’s “All will be well and all will be well and all manner of things will be well” is truly a favorite of mine. We dont’ see all things the same cheryl, as I happen to love Jesus and see Him very differently from some evangelical teaching on associating him with saving from “hell”, etc. But no matter. : ) I guess i see myself as embracing not Good News, but FANTASTIC NEWS although for me, it remains very relational – I think Jane often defines and describes for me much of my present journey, and desires, although she is perhaps further down that path. surrender however, seems to be a very common theme or posture – 180 degrees from the hoops that seem to be so often presented to us to jump! : ). Deep blessings all!
Vicki….laughing!
Actually, your “inner voice” is quite right and has a sense of humor my inner voice rather likes…or is it my inner ear?? 
Anyway, there’s a way that IS EXACTLY “orgasmic.” That posture of laying back, opening up and giving in, with no fear…only peace and rest and love…is what all our hearts long for. And not just in a “relationship with God!” Our physical bodies long for that, as well. I’m thinking those two desires are not as far off from one another as we might have thought. We desire acceptance, safety, oneness, completion, fulfillment, the ability to “move” another and to be “moved by” the other to a point of utter surrender. This is a desire we all know…it is centrally HUMAN.
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So what is that desire? I’m reminded of Jane’s interpretation of the trees and how the tree of life is one of “connection.” This connection is something we all long for…always have since we were babies. We ideally find that connection with our parents for a time but fairly early we begin to long for it in other relationships. I am not just talking sexual connections of course…you can use the same language for the desire we have for connection with others in a non-sexual way. We long for:
- Being Seen
- Being Known
- Being Accepted
- Being Pursued
- Being Understood
- Being Chosen Over & Over
- Being Swept Up & Held
- Being Thought About
- Being Regarded
- Our Needs & Desires Being Anticipated
- Being Loved Wholly
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And there’s a “companion set” of longings we don’t talk about or think about as much. But it is just as real. It is the longing to “affect” someone…to “move someone.” We long:
- To Find the Other Waiting to BE LOVED By Us
- To Find the Other WANTING to BE KNOWN
- To See Arms Upraised Toward Us
- To See Our Love Change the Other
- To BE desired
- To See the Other’s Eyes Light Up When They Encounter Us
- To See Happy Tears in Another’s Eyes IN RESPONSE TO Our Love
- To See, Hear and Feel That We Move the Other
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And more, right? But those are some main longings I think we all share. Those can be met in “romantic” OR in “platonic” relationships. When these don’t exist in relationships we feel deep pain. We begin to feel WE are the problem. We want too much. We expect too much. We ARE too much. We must change. We must alter ourselves. The fairy tales written deep, deep in our hearts must DIE.
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But we love fairy tales. We tell them to our children…why? We supposedly know they don’t come true, that they are idealistic and unrealistic. And yet we tell them again and we delight to see our little girls spinning around, pretending to be princesses, wholly confident that a Prince Charming is just around the corner.
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How many failed relationships does it take before we stop dreaming? We find friendship, even love, and we grab hold of it, even if it isn’t the fulfillment of our earliest desires for connection. We tell our child selves that we must be practical. Our hearts that long to drink deeply at the proverbial breast consent to lick up drops of milk spilt on the table…it tastes like love, looks like love and we tell ourselves we are satisfied.. “enough.”
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We tell ourselves that that LONGING was never INTENDED to have been met in human relationship. We tell one another that we are WAITING FOR that love that we can perhaps touch when we surrender ourselves to God, but will ultimately be met by in heaven. We tell ourselves and even our children that that longing will be only met by God. We long for “heaven” where the pain of not being loved will finally be assuaged.
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But deep inside we KNOW. We know in that deep, deep place inside of us that this is not IT. Don’t we? We know…we KNOW…that it is not that we CAN’T love like that. It is not that we ourselves can’t run full-force into another. We feel the capability in ourselves to do so. But we have learned over decades that NO ONE ELSE WILL MEET US. We find, over and over, that love is not something we can safely abandon ourselves to. We will race toward the “middle,” arms outstretched, panting, the ache of desire burning inside of us, our hearts on our sleeves, tears of longing falling down our cheeks, only to find we are alone there. The other waits there (perhaps) but with equivocations, arms crossed, closed eyes and sometimes a whole suit of armor to protect themselves. Our hearts sink. We are kicked rudely from the garden. “I’m so STUPID,” we say to ourselves, painful tears falling. “Why did I let myself hope…AGAIN??”
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Here’s the “myth retold” for me…
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I’m walking around in the garden. I’m one with that Other (call it Adam, call it God, call it Jesus, call it the human family, whatever). But I forget that I am. I encounter so many people who aren’t moved by me and who don’t want to move me that eventually I begin to question my longing. I pull away from the “whole” and I try to find a way with my brain to assuage my pain, to promise myself that real love is possible and is just…a bite away. A prayer away. A “surrender” away. A death of self away. A quiet time away. Just on the other side. My brain tells my heart that what it wants is impossible. That its dreams and desires are too much. It walks my heart over to that Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and says, “You just need to eat this. Then you’ll “get” it. Then you’ll either find what you’re longing for or understand why you can’t have it and then not want it anymore…or be happy waiting for it until some undetermined future date.” So I reach my hand out.
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And then it happens. Love sweeps in. Love takes my outstretched hand, sometimes even takes that fruit from my desperate grasp and wraps me in an embrace. I look up into the eyes of this Love and find that it is not just saving me from eating that fruit but that it was ALSO LONGING FOR ME. I see the ache I feel in my own heart in this Other’s eyes.
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This Love is not a God hiding in the bushes while I swallow my dreams and desires. This Love is Another whose heart was also breaking, whose hand was also outstretched, reaching for that fruit. When our eyes meet there is a connection…a recognition…that this is what we were both longing for. And perhaps one of us HAD already taken a bite of that fruit. Perhaps one of us was already sick with the weight of that fruit in our stomachs. In that case, we together face off to whoever and whatever would tell us we don’t belong in this garden. We would take the sword from the cherubim’s hand and together we would reach up into the branches of the Tree of Life and take a piece of fruit from it. Together we would sit down in the mossy grass under the tree and eat with hungry mouths. And in that moment, we would find that our desires and dreams were never foolish, we were never too much, our hunger was never unreasonable and unrealistic. In fact, as our eyes met, Life dripping from our mouths in all its’ ripeness and sweetness, we would see in the other’s eyes the RECOGNITION; this…THIS…is what we were made for. And our hearts would MAKE SENSE in that moment.
Wanting to clarify something I wrote in the first paragraph of the above…
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I wrote, “Anyway, there’s” a way that IS EXACTLY “orgasmic.” That posture of laying back, opening up and giving in, with no fear…only peace and rest and love…is what all our hearts long for.”
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That language sounds an awful like what I used to call “surrender.” And technically that IS indeed the definition of surrender. But for years, I “tried to surrender” to God in just such a way. I tried to utterly abandon myself to…..God? Death of self? The message of surrender was that IF I could get to that point of utter surrender, God would BE ABLE TO meet me there. I was not alone in this belief, I know.
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But this is so very wrong…actually more like IMPOSSIBLE. The picture of THAT kind of surrender (the kind I tried for decades with God) would be this…
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I long for love, for connection with and intimacy with this Other. I got this letter that said this Other wanted me and had even put his life on the line in order to come and meet me in this “bed.” I excitedly prepare myself for what I realize I’ve always been longing for. He’s going to be here! He’s on his way! My heart swells with excitement and longing. I’ve been waiting for this…and it’s going to happen.
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I look around and find…no one. I realize I must not be WANTING the Other enough. I undress myself in an effort to show how much I WANT this. I try to leave my other thoughts and worries behind so that I can focus on this impending meeting. But it is right there that the problem arises. I am supposed to WANT ENOUGH to be loved in order to woo this lover. If the lover doesn’t satisfy me, it is because I didn’t want him to enough. Or because my brain was elsewhere. I am supposed to try to BECOME MOVED in order to BE MOVED. AND…I am supposed to MOVE HIM. And when I pull the letter back out, trying to figure out what went wrong, I read that this Other is just “waiting” for me.
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I look around…where is he? I spray some perfume, reapply my lipgloss, try to get my head in the right place, try not to get emotional. He’s got to be right around the corner. I read more of the letter and find, not only is his not being here due to some lapse on my part, if I CAN’T woo this guy I am in danger of being alone forever. Like…this is my one shot. If I fuck this up, I am truly and totally without love…for eternity.
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And perhaps by some miracle, he DOES show up. Rarely this happens but when it does there is a momentary reawakening of my desire. But he just sits there. He reminds me that I must WANT HIM ENOUGH. I must empty myself of all other thoughts, worries and desires. I must be content with only him. I must lay down every other desire, including how I want this encounter to go. But he doesn’t touch me. He doesn’t even look at me. The parts of me I thought he would respond to seem to move him as much as my kneecaps or elbows. He sits there, waiting. For what? My body aches with longing. My desire to be touched and held and loved is so strong I weep. But he remains aloof. He wants my mind to think differently, my mouth to say something I haven’t said. I see in his eyes that he requires a loss of something that I don’t know how to lose.
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He wants “surrender.” But how can I surrender fearlessly, trustingly, wholly when I have the loss of love being held over my head? It’s like I’m supposed to spontaneously arrive at the edge of orgasm to prove that I deserve to be caressed. Sorry if that’s graphic but that’s what it feels like. It is a physically impossible proposition. I am being asked to arrive at a point of surrender and love and bliss that only a lover who is equally surrendered and who has no conditions or requirements can authentically bring me to. To put it bluntly, I can’t be shamed or scared into an orgasm.
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Hope that helps make the idea of “surrender” I was/wasn’t intending make more sense.
any word can be misunderstood, misinterpreted etc right? because there is very little that anyone “sees”/experiences/reads etc that isn’t attached to some kind of filter….if one is honest. i’ve sort of given up on trying to make my written language so universal that each word fits the needs of each person. impossible… i skimmed again cheryl…nothing personal – . gotta get back to putting my pants on on leg at a time and dealing with the H1N1 realities out there in my community… she’s getting crazy!
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for me, sometimes when all is said and done, i just want to belly laugh – one of my all time favorite things in the world.
Ditto JR!
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I’d go even further than that. We’ve had that tree of life since eternity and JC came to explain it to us and how we get there. Why the hell then don’t we listen and go? What’s the problem?
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No man, or church or book or Bible can take us there. The door is wide open to enter in our selves – warts and all. That tree of life has always been “in” us.
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How else could we “live” even if we die if we didn’t already have that “tree” in us?
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But what about JC saying? “I am the resurrection and the life, he who believes (trusts) in me shall live even if he dies (physical death).
And everyone who lives and trusts me (those deep feelings) shall never die (physical death)”. “DO YOU BELIEVE THIS?” he adds. John 11: 25-26
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What’s he saying there?
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Repent! “Metanoia” here we come! We can do it in a twinkling of an eye. No self improvemnet advocates need apply. You can’t get in that way. It’s a whole new world (creation).
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It’s fun being pushy and arrogant over something that is so good! And Vicki you have me wrong when you say “that you will likely remain blinded to your prescriptive and arrogant style of communicating”. I am fully aware of my communicating style! I am doing this quite intentionally and realize the likely consequences and the attitudes that will most probably surface from others.
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Jim, through his blog has been raising many useful questions for a long time and really we have never come through with any unified conclusions. Maybe one would be that I am an arrogant know all prick that is a bit of a nuisance, but that’s of little consequence. We will never get much further if we keep going like we have either. It’s time for us to get more real – more courageous – take the covers off – and stop this sopping around each other and kick that “snake” out the door.
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Vicki, we have heard lots about you. You are probably one of the most prolific writers dominating this blog. We could edit up a couple of books from the material you have written about yourself so I think we have a pretty fair idea of how you think and as such you should be open to straight forward comments.
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So my intention here is to try and push things along and with the help of one or two more braver souls who are starting to appear we can do just that. That’s my motive anyway. Time is running out. He’s here! I see him popping up out of people all over the place now.
cheryl – but i skim fast : ).
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and in your second note – i want to say that I feel I have experienced those very things – that frustration, that sense of betrayal that perhaps I am reading in your words – not just with how I understood Jesus but with other “men”….. how to get it all lined up just so….to be what I think they wanted. Jesus wanted it lined up , however,( it seemed ) – to the nth degree , and i ALWAYS fell short! What I love though and feel so happy about, is that I do not have a screw you attitude at all (and am NOT implying anyone does!) – about God, Jesus, church, men or anything . that’s the beauty for me right now — i feel soft and open and full of life and energy – AND I love Jesus and feel excited about Him seeing Him as the source of my True Self. Go figure. I don’t know. Like I said, Jane’s journey sort of captures much of my connection.
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SO, i’m no longer in that place i just described, but i guess i just wanted to say, “SISTA – i hear ya!” : ). in fact your words are uncanny…. i’ll NEVER forget a woman saying to me once when I poured out similar words – really of deep angst and despair and vulnerability: “WELL, Vicki……. MAYBE….. it’s a LORDSHIP issue” . Like – ” FUCK OFF!!!!!!.” (i’m not saying i was NEVER angry) : ). It took a long time, to finally realize that it was NOT about ME crossing t’s and dotting i’s..let’s see if I can remember those “t’s” and “i’s” ….. oh yes….
a) have no doubts
b) have more faith
c) go back and make it right with everyone…. like where ARE some of those people? NOW what do I do????
d) surrender everything – (but what if there’s something i forgot to consider, and i don’t know it yet cause it’s subconscious)
e) want Him more than anything else…. so ANYTIME I desired something…. it was “pitted” against my desire for Him – like a duel.
f) run the bases as a sign of spiritual growth and maturity (salvation/baptism/witnessing/church membership – so it could be shown i was SERIOUS about my devotion/ministry)….
g) oh and then there was the little season i endured begging God to help me to see the extent of my evilness and my deserving of eternal conscious torment, so THAT i could TRULY have gratitude.
h) seek for Him with ALL of your heart (and if it’s not ALL – forget it… and if it IS with all of your heart….. well…. He’ll be just a smidge past your hardest efforts.
j) true conversion versus false conversion…. I can thank Charles Finney for THAT season of angst…..”okay Jesus, now THIS time, i’m really SUPER serious”
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all i can say, is that i am no longer there. I feel no more anger, no more hurt and yet…. for me….. Jesus is still a part of my “turning”…my Hope, my desire and source of True Self. I’m not trying to “promote” Him to you or to anyone else in any way, shape or form; it is just that in my journey I see Him as SO SEPARATE from the teaching I had – or at least in how i interpreted it. I’m in a good space right now – not arrived, but free.
brian – do whatcha gotta do.. i personally dont’ do well with words like ‘pushing’ and ’shoving’ but i am not taking anything personally! : )
p.s. but Brian – i am convinced your heart is in the right place – so it’s all good! love vicki
Thanks for that Vicki. I’m sure we are all trying to do our best. We are a bit of a diverse little “family” but we’ll hit that true unity – I have no doubts at all.
brian – yes indeed. i’m sending you a big, big bear hug and a huge smootch on the cheek. hope that’s okay. : )
Wow, Vicki! That “list”…did you read my journal????
But here’s where I am. right now I’m going through a divorce. This divorce is what I WANT. I chose it. The reasons don’t matter. I am a single mom 50% of the time (the other half the time the children are with their dad). I’ve chosen not to talk about the “reason” for my choice to divorce my husband and so many people in my life have picked to respond to that by assuming the worst. So many people have responded with judgment. Very few people seem concerned about my well-being and I have received almost no tangible help as I navigate this difficult time. As I move forward into my new life, people fall away. It hurts. And I’m afraid it will get worse before it gets better. I often feel lonely. I feel overwhelmed. I am exhausted a lot of the time. I miss my kids when they aren’t here. I worry about the bills. I worry about my kids. I am happier than I have been in a long time and I am confident that this is the best thing for not just me, but for my kids, as well. But that doesn’t change that this is hard as hell.
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I think more of us can identify with that list than we realize. That’s part of the “aloneness” that so many of us have felt within our religious experience…we feel we’re the only ones with these “problems.” We all stand at that tree, our hearts breaking, reaching out for the fuit that will give our heads/brains some peace that the love we long for is not impossible. We repeat to one another that this fruit is where it’s at. The ironic thing is that we are standing next to one another, all longing for the same thing and all it takes is to just look over at one another and speak the truth…
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So I’m looking past the tree and over at you, Vicki. I’m looking over at you, Brian. I’m looking over at you, JR. I’m looking over at you, Jim. At you, Jane. At you, Sylvia. At you, Jenn. At you, John. At you, Audrey. At you, Jeff. At you, Don, Rebecca, Claude, FS and at each one of you who hasn’t commented but is “here.” We can all look into one another’s eyes right now, and this conversation is how we are doing that at the moment, and we can let the tears fall, let our desires be known, let our arms fall and that fruit drop from our hands. We can hold one another in the pain that we all feel. We can gather around Jenn, who bravely expressed some very raw pain the other day in her comment. We can speak of our common desires to be loved for REAL, in THIS moment rather than at some future date in some faraway “heaven.” We can take hell off the table. We can take “surrender” off the table. We can take any condition of any kind off the table. We can love and accept one another utterly in this moment. Period. No “hope of glory…” hope NOW. Heaven NOW. Because really…what do we mean when we say we long for heaven? What exactly ARE we longing FOR? Love, right? Rest, right? Fear of rejection gone, right? Acceptance of the deep, naked, raw parts of ourselves we have always hidden, right? Why does that need to wait until later? Jesus spoke of “the kingdom” and he lived all this in those three short years of his “ministry.” He pushed past differences in belief, differences in culture, what he was “supposed” to do and feel. That’s what I want to do RIGHT NOW. I’m reaching out to YOU and wanting to connect with YOU. THAT IS ALL. Nothing more, nothing less.
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What would happen if we stopped talking about our belief? What would happen if we stopped talking about how our beliefs differ from one another? What if we talked only about our pain? Our dreams? Our fears? Our longings and desires? Holy shit…that pretty much makes me want to sob. Can you imagine? My heart tells me that’s what I’ve always wanted.
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So I’ll start. No one has to jump in if they don’t want to.
Especially for Vicki,
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A big bear hug and a kiss I’d accept anytime from you Vicki. Keep up the good work. Thanks so much.
my dear friend cheryl- no i did not read your journal – but i do pay attention to people – to their stories – to my own stories – to life. I have chosen to live an honest, reflective, examined life, for a long time.
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there are common threads, i think, in feeling alone, or misunderstood – it doesn’t have to be thru divorce – that is but ONE vehicle – albeit a hard one (not that i’ve been there personally). I am sorry this night for YOUR pain.
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I have a favorite book (bear with me Brian – please just accept me in this) ; ). It is called Through the Wilderness of Loneliness. Not because I don’t listen to my OWN heart, but because others – writers, mystics, friends, community – DO help to shape me, challenge me etc, and this vulnerable writer added much to my own heart. There are a few quotes – perhaps i can share, making no assumptions that anything will resonate for you.
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1) from my journal: (Tim Hansel)
“lately i have experienced a loneliness so deep that i feel as though i need a second heart to contain all the pain. a deep sense of dislocation overwhelms my very being. i feel disconnected from all that I treasure – God, my family, my friends, even myself. Perhaps this is at the heart of loneliness, a great feeling of disconnection. ”
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2) “the strongest and the brightest of us are fragile as a floating bubble
, unsteady as a newborn kitten on a waxed kitchen floor”
- Lewis Smedes ( i love this one)
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Cheryl, of course i do not know the details of your story, but I suspect I might have a sense of some core experiences of the heart that often transcends the “specifics” of life… i in no way wish that to sound presumptuous – i have not been in your shoes. but i am human and I do connect, i think, at least, with some of the core heart desires which i feel that I hear from you. I am connecting with you across the miles…
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Brian – thanks so much! ; )
Tears…
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thank you, Vicki. Your uncertainty was unnecessary. You DO understand. I feel a little less alone right now. Thank you.
Vicki….
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a little thank you….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUO0gd7cr9o
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oh cheryl – that just delighted me! thank you for this gift!!! : )
Cheryl do you have “real people” that live near you who will listen to you and accept you and not judge you? I feel your pain and it will get better.
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I have enjoyed the comments on this thread. Boy, Jim got some action started with this one. Personally I am on a high right now. Jim’s books have helped me love everyone better.
Hi, Claude…
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Yes…I have a couple people like that. I honestly am not sure what I would do without those people!
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Thank you for the empathy, Claude. I’m taking your word for it that it’s going to get better!!!!