the original screw up
Jim November 3rd, 2009
What originally screwed things up? Apparently at first, things were going fairly well in the garden with Adam and Eve. It was ALL good. Then they ate the fruit and it became good AND bad – they acquired the knowledge of good and evil. What is it about the “knowledge of good and evil” that screws things up? Seems like this knowledge created an entire system that’s broken and doesn’t work. Before that it was simple. Then it got complicated. Can we go back? What would it mean to live life on the it’s-all-good system? Is that possible? What would it look like? What is the difference between the all-good reality and the good-AND-bad deal? Is the current system inherently broken and flawed? What’s the alternative?
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Ditto JR!
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I’d go even further than that. We’ve had that tree of life since eternity and JC came to explain it to us and how we get there. Why the hell then don’t we listen and go? What’s the problem?
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No man, or church or book or Bible can take us there. The door is wide open to enter in our selves – warts and all. That tree of life has always been “in” us.
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How else could we “live” even if we die if we didn’t already have that “tree” in us?
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But what about JC saying? “I am the resurrection and the life, he who believes (trusts) in me shall live even if he dies (physical death).
And everyone who lives and trusts me (those deep feelings) shall never die (physical death)”. “DO YOU BELIEVE THIS?” he adds. John 11: 25-26
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What’s he saying there?
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Repent! “Metanoia” here we come! We can do it in a twinkling of an eye. No self improvemnet advocates need apply. You can’t get in that way. It’s a whole new world (creation).
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It’s fun being pushy and arrogant over something that is so good! And Vicki you have me wrong when you say “that you will likely remain blinded to your prescriptive and arrogant style of communicating”. I am fully aware of my communicating style! I am doing this quite intentionally and realize the likely consequences and the attitudes that will most probably surface from others.
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Jim, through his blog has been raising many useful questions for a long time and really we have never come through with any unified conclusions. Maybe one would be that I am an arrogant know all prick that is a bit of a nuisance, but that’s of little consequence. We will never get much further if we keep going like we have either. It’s time for us to get more real – more courageous – take the covers off – and stop this sopping around each other and kick that “snake” out the door.
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Vicki, we have heard lots about you. You are probably one of the most prolific writers dominating this blog. We could edit up a couple of books from the material you have written about yourself so I think we have a pretty fair idea of how you think and as such you should be open to straight forward comments.
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So my intention here is to try and push things along and with the help of one or two more braver souls who are starting to appear we can do just that. That’s my motive anyway. Time is running out. He’s here! I see him popping up out of people all over the place now.
cheryl – but i skim fast : ).
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and in your second note – i want to say that I feel I have experienced those very things – that frustration, that sense of betrayal that perhaps I am reading in your words – not just with how I understood Jesus but with other “men”….. how to get it all lined up just so….to be what I think they wanted. Jesus wanted it lined up , however,( it seemed ) – to the nth degree , and i ALWAYS fell short! What I love though and feel so happy about, is that I do not have a screw you attitude at all (and am NOT implying anyone does!) – about God, Jesus, church, men or anything . that’s the beauty for me right now — i feel soft and open and full of life and energy – AND I love Jesus and feel excited about Him seeing Him as the source of my True Self. Go figure. I don’t know. Like I said, Jane’s journey sort of captures much of my connection.
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SO, i’m no longer in that place i just described, but i guess i just wanted to say, “SISTA – i hear ya!” : ). in fact your words are uncanny…. i’ll NEVER forget a woman saying to me once when I poured out similar words – really of deep angst and despair and vulnerability: “WELL, Vicki……. MAYBE….. it’s a LORDSHIP issue” . Like – ” FUCK OFF!!!!!!.” (i’m not saying i was NEVER angry) : ). It took a long time, to finally realize that it was NOT about ME crossing t’s and dotting i’s..let’s see if I can remember those “t’s” and “i’s” ….. oh yes….
a) have no doubts
b) have more faith
c) go back and make it right with everyone…. like where ARE some of those people? NOW what do I do????
d) surrender everything – (but what if there’s something i forgot to consider, and i don’t know it yet cause it’s subconscious)
e) want Him more than anything else…. so ANYTIME I desired something…. it was “pitted” against my desire for Him – like a duel.
f) run the bases as a sign of spiritual growth and maturity (salvation/baptism/witnessing/church membership – so it could be shown i was SERIOUS about my devotion/ministry)….
g) oh and then there was the little season i endured begging God to help me to see the extent of my evilness and my deserving of eternal conscious torment, so THAT i could TRULY have gratitude.
h) seek for Him with ALL of your heart (and if it’s not ALL – forget it… and if it IS with all of your heart….. well…. He’ll be just a smidge past your hardest efforts.
j) true conversion versus false conversion…. I can thank Charles Finney for THAT season of angst…..”okay Jesus, now THIS time, i’m really SUPER serious”
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all i can say, is that i am no longer there. I feel no more anger, no more hurt and yet…. for me….. Jesus is still a part of my “turning”…my Hope, my desire and source of True Self. I’m not trying to “promote” Him to you or to anyone else in any way, shape or form; it is just that in my journey I see Him as SO SEPARATE from the teaching I had – or at least in how i interpreted it. I’m in a good space right now – not arrived, but free.
brian – do whatcha gotta do.. i personally dont’ do well with words like ‘pushing’ and ’shoving’ but i am not taking anything personally! : )
p.s. but Brian – i am convinced your heart is in the right place – so it’s all good! love vicki
Thanks for that Vicki. I’m sure we are all trying to do our best. We are a bit of a diverse little “family” but we’ll hit that true unity – I have no doubts at all.
brian – yes indeed. i’m sending you a big, big bear hug and a huge smootch on the cheek. hope that’s okay. : )
Especially for Vicki,
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A big bear hug and a kiss I’d accept anytime from you Vicki. Keep up the good work. Thanks so much.
my dear friend cheryl- no i did not read your journal – but i do pay attention to people – to their stories – to my own stories – to life. I have chosen to live an honest, reflective, examined life, for a long time.
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there are common threads, i think, in feeling alone, or misunderstood – it doesn’t have to be thru divorce – that is but ONE vehicle – albeit a hard one (not that i’ve been there personally). I am sorry this night for YOUR pain.
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I have a favorite book (bear with me Brian – please just accept me in this) ; ). It is called Through the Wilderness of Loneliness. Not because I don’t listen to my OWN heart, but because others – writers, mystics, friends, community – DO help to shape me, challenge me etc, and this vulnerable writer added much to my own heart. There are a few quotes – perhaps i can share, making no assumptions that anything will resonate for you.
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1) from my journal: (Tim Hansel)
“lately i have experienced a loneliness so deep that i feel as though i need a second heart to contain all the pain. a deep sense of dislocation overwhelms my very being. i feel disconnected from all that I treasure – God, my family, my friends, even myself. Perhaps this is at the heart of loneliness, a great feeling of disconnection. ”
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2) “the strongest and the brightest of us are fragile as a floating bubble
, unsteady as a newborn kitten on a waxed kitchen floor”
- Lewis Smedes ( i love this one)
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Cheryl, of course i do not know the details of your story, but I suspect I might have a sense of some core experiences of the heart that often transcends the “specifics” of life… i in no way wish that to sound presumptuous – i have not been in your shoes. but i am human and I do connect, i think, at least, with some of the core heart desires which i feel that I hear from you. I am connecting with you across the miles…
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Brian – thanks so much! ; )
oh cheryl – that just delighted me! thank you for this gift!!! : )
Cheryl do you have “real people” that live near you who will listen to you and accept you and not judge you? I feel your pain and it will get better.
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I have enjoyed the comments on this thread. Boy, Jim got some action started with this one. Personally I am on a high right now. Jim’s books have helped me love everyone better.